Wednesday, January 21, 2009

Delusions

"Our Lady of Toledo"
I'm sorry to burst the bubble, but this nonsense needs to stop. Mrs. Steadman is a very nice lady, but she did not see visions of Our Lady anywhere except in her imagination. Everyone involved in this ersatz shrine should be ashamed of themselves.

10 comments:

ShariYS said...

Even the Church considers it a "personal revelation" ie, they're not really convinced either. There are alot of self-styled "prophets" out there (alive, dead, or anywhere in between), and while I'll reserve judgment on their sanity, they pretty much all have an AGENDA, they're looking to make money, and they can delute ALOT of others into following them in a cultlike manner. While I do pray that she'll have a peaceful death, it appears to me that here's one more example.

Irene said...

Sanity? delusion (it's delude, not delute)? Cult? Agenda...making a lot of money? Ersatz? You are talking my language.

Jeffrey, I don't know Mrs. Steadman, never even heard of her before tonight. But you seem very invested for an apostate. Or have you relapsed once again into Catholicism?

Mrs. Steadman is in hospice. I suspect money has little meaning to her now -- perhaps she is much closer to the Virgin. Are these phenomena "personal revelation" and the Virgin "real", or are they calculated cult for profit? Or are they the harmless delusions of a lonely old lady?

Before I retired I used to get paid (a lot) for being able to tell the difference. In the present case, I see nothing here or in the Blade that enables me to make a judgment.

Let them enjoy their shrine.

Jeffrey Smith said...

Certainly not ( Once John 3:16 sounds like complete bullshit, you're gone for good. ) , but I'm sick of the fact that no one in Toledo's really speaking out against this nonsense. The bishop's handling it well by ignoring it, but he can't really come right out and confront it, for two reasons. First, this one isn't getting much attention from the usual Marian loons, and second, the Medjugorje fraud showed that, even when a bishop's right, he's still pretty much irrelevant. No one listens to them anymore.
I met Ms. Steadman once and I'd say it's just a case of an overactive imagination and too much obsessing about abortion. I read the supposed messages when I still believed and was disgusted by them. Any vision that makes Christ come off like a spoiled brat, as these do, is certainly not from Mary. I'd absolve her of a profit motive and put her in the same category as Opal Covey. Not so sure about her "hand-picked successor." ( Successor to what? )
But on the other hand, given the lack of attention the whole pack of foolishness has been getting ( Most of the Marian loon websites think it's in Toledo, Oregon. ) I'd say it'll fade away after a few years.

Irene said...

You may be quite correct. Ms. Steadman indeed may have been obsessing and succumbed to an overactive imagination. Or maybe not (if I can't tell, who can?).

But so far as I can see, the results seem to be harmless, an excess of piety (on the part of a number of people). Who is it hurting (donating a little money doesn't impress me).

There are far worse things in this world, and in the church, much more deserving of your (and my) time and attention.

As for Jn 3.16, let's address that on another day.

Jeffrey Smith said...

Well, if you're fortunate enough to consider what has to have been a few millions, mostly from the elderly who complain about their fixed incomes, I envy you. They've spent a small fortune on buildings, statuary, and gew-gaws out there, but still no progress on the good works they "plan".
"Who can?" Anyone who's close-by and uses their brain. That's who. It's obvious enough.

ShariYS said...

Pardon my miskey - I knew that.

Irene said...

"...the elderly who complain about their fixed incomes..."

Do you mean me? Can't say that I complain about my fixed income. Most of it goes to the church and a few unemployed who don't have fixed incomes, anyway.

Consider the possibility that the "...buildings, statuary, and gew-gaws out there..." make the donors happy -- that they do not complain. When I see them I may find the "gee-gaws" gaudy and tasteless, even a bit superstitious (Catholic Encyclopedia definition) -- but I'll bet I let those people who manifest their faith in that style continue on without the benefit of my artistic criticism.

By the way: "millions" -- is there an audit?

Jeffrey Smith said...

I suspect you'd have too much sense to donate to this if you were here for a close look.
Audit? Good question.

ShariYS said...

I certainly believe in the right of people to manifest their faith in whatever manner, as long as they're not sacrificing small animals or young virgins -- but when people, even a small number of them, succumb to a cult mentality based on the allegedly channelled pronouncements of a person who is being revered as having some sort of special superhighway to divine revelation ... well, hopefully that sort of thing stays small and on their little patch of sacred ground out there, because history shows us that sort of mindset has led to some pretty nasty events. And it's unfortunate that such cults often do siphon way too much $$$ from the elderly who can't afford it, and other assorted gullible DELUDED folks.

Jeffrey Smith said...

The word "channeling" hits the nail right on the head.